The scapegoat of proselytism” “

Reciprocal mistrust, the harsh experience of the oppression of the Communist regime, the accusations of proselytism, but also signs of renewal, personal contacts, the entering into dialogue of some intellectuals. The Orthodox theologian Olivier Clément , in an exclusive interview with SirEurope, analyzes the positive and negative sides of ecumenical dialogue in Russia. And he also explains the historical and political reasons for the attitude of the Russian government to the case of the expulsion of the Catholic bishop of Irkutsk, in eastern Siberia, Msgr. Jerzy Mazur, whom we interviewed in the last number of SirEurope (cf. no.27/2002). Is the vexation expressed by Patriarch Alexis II as a result of the creation of Catholic dioceses in Russia linked to a nationalistic sentiment? “It should be borne in mind that there is a very close link in Russia between the idea of nationhood and the role of the Church. The Orthodox Church is historically inseparable from the life of the nation. Since the justification for the power of Putin today is nationalism, it’s natural that Alexis II should share this same view. The patriarch feels that the history of Russia is not the same as that of other Western countries, as a result of this unity of the nation that is in turn linked to the unity of the Church. Therefore the creation of Catholic dioceses in the territory of Russia seems to the patriarch of Moscow a form of Western aggression”. Metropolitan Kirill accuses the Catholic Church of proselytism. Is that one way of rejecting the visibility of the Catholic Church? “It’s very difficult to give an answer. At times proselytism is a convenient argument to which to have recourse. Of course, there is a kind of proselytism in Russia, especially exercized by Polish Catholics. Nonetheless one cannot speak of a mass phenomenon, and I think that in this case it’s more in the nature of a scapegoat. It would be an exaggeration to assert that there is any desire to deny the visibility of the Catholic Church, but there does exist a wish to prevent it from spreading in the country. It should not be forgotten, moreover, that the fact that there are Catholics in western Siberia and in central Asia is due to the mass deportations ordered by Stalin”. Does Putin’s silence and his failure to reply to the Pope’s letter on the expulsion of Bishop Mazur form part of this nationalistic logic? “I think so. At the present time Russia is withdrawn into herself, in spite of the fact that she is reviving in the economic field and gaining strength from a psychological point of view. The social sphere, on the other hand, still leaves a lot to be desired, but the Orthodox Church is playing a far more active role in this direction, and that is something new. Putin meanwhile is trying to reinforce his popular base. He therefore considers the support of the Church of fundamental importance, and is animated by a nostalgia for the old Russia when Church and State were identified with each other”. What dialogue is possible between Alexis II and John Paul II? “In some sense the Russian Orthodox Church does not really want any dialogue with the Catholic Church. Catholicism, unlike Russian Orthodoxy, has not experienced totalitarian oppression. And from this oppression the Russian Orthodox Church derives a feeling at once of inferiority and superiority. Western Catholicism is perceived as more intelligent, more cultivated, more seductive and hence more susceptible to attracting many people, especially among intellectuals, if it is allowed to expand in Russia. The Orthodox Church wants to prevent this from happening. The Catholic Church would not pose any problem on condition that it remains discreet. Unfortunately, the creation of four Catholic dioceses in Russia was not in my judgement sufficiently discreet. Now we must await a new generation among Russian Christian intellectuals and a renewal of the episcopate, which has already begun. Of course, there are individuals and groups open to dialogue but the phenomenon remains fairly marginal. For the time being we must especially insist on the ecumenism of friendship, while awaiting the intellectual elite and Christian thought to be renewed. Fortunately the signs of this renewal are beginning to be visible, although they still remain marginal. Nonetheless I don’t see in the immediate future many opportunities for a dialogue between Catholics and Orthodox in Russia at the official level”.